How To Master The Duel Between Life & Work With Jamie Douraghy: Podcast #296

This post was originally published on this site

Jamie Douraghy uncovers the secret to expanding your consulting practice by navigating the delicate balance between work and life. His insights on expanding a consulting practice while maintaining a healthy work-life balance revolve around two key aspects: aligning with like-minded individuals and building a supportive network. The alignment of like-minded individuals helps foster a sense of belonging and provides opportunities for collaboration and partnership. This supportive network will empower you to overcome obstacles, maintain a healthy work-life balance, and achieve sustainable growth in your consulting practice. By leveraging these connections and resources, consultants can navigate the challenges of work and life, fuel their business growth, and cultivate a thriving consulting practice.

Michael is joined by Jamie Douraghy, who is an Executive Coach, Facilitator, Speaker, Author, and US national fencing champion. He specializes in providing executive coaching, leadership development, and team-building services. Before we dive into the episode, it is worth noting that Jamie attributes a significant portion of his business accomplishments to his community involvement through EO and his business coach.

If you are a consultant with the ambition to leap from 6 to 7 figures in your business, remember that you don’t need to take this journey alone. We are here to help you. We are offering a free consulting blueprint designed to pave your way from 6 to 7 figures. To claim your free copy of this blueprint, head over to

Let’s shed some more light on Jamie. As an Executive Coach, Jamie facilitates entrepreneurs in achieving clarity by navigating the delicate balance between work and life. As you tune into this episode, you will uncover a wealth of inspiring lessons. You will learn about the significance of aligning with those who share similar values, how your hobbies can unexpectedly fuel your business growth, and a mindset trick designed to bolster your confidence. However, I particularly want you to focus on the pivotal role of having a supportive community and coach to rely on. This could be the secret sauce for you in the expansion of your consulting practice. Here to share his compelling journey with you is Jamie Douraghy. Enjoy the episode.

Jamie, I’m excited about our conversation for several reasons, as we spoke before hitting record. The work that you do is fascinating. It is a topic that every business owner has to deal with, struggles with, or spends time pondering. You are an Executive Coach, Facilitator, Speaker, Author, and a US national fencing champion. As you shared with me before, you are based and born in the US, but you spent your early years living in Tehran, Iran, and England, which, for people who have been in the Consulting Success community for some time, they know how much we love and thrive off of international perspectives and the world is such a wonderful place. I love to dive more into that.

You do executive coaching, leadership development, and team building for your clients. Why don’t we start off with your experience as being in the world of fencing? First of all, how did you get into fencing? I’d love to hear what you took from that or what maybe still stays with you now from that experience of being in the US national fencing.

For me, fencing started when I was in a boarding school in England. If you can imagine the weather in England in January, we had this sport called field hockey. We would be out there outside of London in the mud and rain. It was more like a weekly scene out of Braveheart, a bunch of young men going at it with a stick, trying to hit a white ball, which wasn’t the target sometimes. There was an option to fence. I thought, “That is interesting. It is a different environment.” I’m small. I’m 5’6”. I’m left-handed and fast. I was starting to win without a lot of training. That gave me confidence and something to aim for.

As with anything else in life, the more I did it, the better I got. The more lessons I took, the more I raised my game. The more competitions I entered, the better I started to place over time. That was many years ago. I’m still fencing. What I learned from fencing is I use that as a metaphor for how we handle pressure in life.

What I learned from that is when I surrounded myself with better coaches, I got better results. When I raised my game and competed against fencers that were better than me, I would eventually beat them. At the same time, other fencers are aiming to beat me. It is a constant game, like in business. When you think you are ahead, someone else comes and takes the lead, and you have to go back again.

What has kept me in it are two things. One is it has kept me in physical shape and mental shape. The other is the fencing community. I mentor younger fencers. I spend some of my time helping them build, not from the coaching standpoint because they are much better fencing coaches than I am. I work on their mindset and confidence to help them build the internal muscle to help them become better competitors. That is, in a nutshell, the many years of journey through the sport.

I appreciate you sharing that because there is a lot inside of that that is relevant to everybody in one form or another. There are two big things that stood out to me inside of that. The first is you talked about confidence. I wonder about your perspective on how important it is for people to find in whatever they are working on or do a quick win or an easy win to build their confidence.

Often these days, especially with media around us, it is like this big initiative or big project to that next level of growth. People are always thinking about big things they need to move to create big results. I wonder your thoughts on how important, if at all, in your experience, for people to maybe look at that bigger initiative or goal and break it down to figure out what is one small maybe win or quick win that I could have that would give me that confidence, and would propel me to keep moving forward? What are your thoughts on that?

In life, we win through taking small, incremental steps. Click To Tweet

That is what fencing is all about. We have lost far more tournaments than we have ever won in our life. We win the tournaments through incremental steps. You can only score one touch at a time. That is how it works. You have to take small steps. If we take too big a step in fencing, we open up ourselves because we are telling our opponent, “I’m coming at you.” If we are taking smaller steps, they can’t always read our body language.

I learned fencing has a ranking system from unclassified E through A, with A being the highest from a letter standpoint. Every three years, we have to re-earn that letter, or you drop down to the B and C. It is about constantly staying engaged, having a process, and understanding that these processes are small steps to the top of the podium. Sometimes you are at the lower step, the second place, or the third step. Sometimes you don’t even make the podium. The joy and the challenge are beating myself to be better than I was the last time because my opponent is doing the same thing.

As you are speaking, I’m thinking about all of the applications of this to entrepreneurs because so much of what you talk about is that success comes from consistency. It comes from consistently taking small steps. For everybody who is reading, it is important to look at what you are doing now. Rather than looking at one big massive goal, like you want to increase your revenue by X amount, think about how you can break that down. What is one small step that you can take now and this week that would be a win for you? The confidence from that and the progress you are going to make from that are going to start to compound.

The other thing that you talked about was coaches. I’m a big believer in this. Over a decade back, I started working with coaches myself and for us in our business. I find it interesting that there are many people who still resist the idea of working with a coach or working with somebody who has been there and done that, who has achieved what they want to achieve, or who has a way to help them to accelerate the results they want to see.

From your work with many people both in the sports world as well as in the business or corporate world, why do you believe that happens? What do you think is holding people back from accepting or being open to getting coaching, getting help to accelerate their success or the progress they want to make?

Part of it could be how we internalize and label certain professions. If we look at it, our attorneys are our coaches. Our accountants are our coaches. They coach us in different ways. Why not have one that sees beyond the transaction or the subject matter expertise of some of the professionals that we surround ourselves with?

If you look at the top athletes, they have far more than one coach. They have multiple coaches to work on different aspects, not only of their game but also of their mind, body, and spirit. For me, those four elements require an outside perspective, more than reading a book or listening to a podcast. I felt that when I had a coach, I had accountability to someone other than myself, and I didn’t want to let the coach down.

Have you ever found somebody who has achieved and excelled in work or in a sport that has not had a coach? Is that even a possibility? I would be hard-pressed to find somebody who has achieved success or progress in their own eyes and the eyes of those around them without a coach.

From personal experience, I can say no, I don’t. From what I have read, everyone says, “These are the other people.” Every time someone writes a great book, the list of acknowledgments of people that have helped them along the way is as important as why they wrote that book. It doesn’t happen on its own.

That is a great point that what we all achieve or want to achieve, we can accelerate that or make more progress by surrounding ourselves with people who can help us get there. Let’s dig in a little bit more into how you got to where you are. Before you started coaching, facilitating workshops, and doing the work that you do right now with your clients, what were you doing? Get us up to speed on the background of Jamie before the current stage.

Before I found what I was supposed to be doing, I had a lot of odd jobs. I was somewhat of a directionalist. Eventually, my brother invited me to start a company, Artisan. It is a staffing company for freelance creative talent. We ran that for twenty years. I joined EO, the Entrepreneurs Organization, and the business grew and thrived. However, inside I felt I had something else to do. That feeling for me was the North Star. It was the why.

CSP Jamie Douraghy | Work Life Balance

I listened to Simon Sinek. He had spoken about starting with why. He had started that part, which was great. I kept researching. I came across a gentleman by the name of Gary Sanchez and the WHY Institute. He created the 9 WHYs. That framework gave me something tangible to work with. When I found that my WHY was to contribute to something greater than myself, I had to dig a little deeper. The why is important. What is the how? How do I do this? My how is to make sense of the complicated. What I do is create clarity so that the leaders I work with can go on and make important decisions and live in life with greater impact. I found my why, how, and what.

From there, I felt that I had to do more work. I looked at different kinds of assessments. I landed on CliftonStrengths. I became a certified coach in CliftonStrengths because CliftonStrengths focus on the how. You take your top five strengths. I put those into the how bucket. I believe in the power of three. I went and did a little bit more research and came across the work of Judith Glaser in Conversational Intelligence. Her way of thinking is how we take our conversations as leaders from transactional and positional, where we spend a lot of time proving our case and taking that to the third level, which is transformational.

I believe when we know our why and we know how to do it through our strengths. We can start having higher-level conversations that lift whoever we are speaking with or presenting to that next level. When I came across that, that gave me confidence. I don’t believe in faking it until you make it. I believe in doing it until you become it. I gradually, through small incremental steps, kept doing it until I became that executive coach and facilitator where I spent my time and life doing that.

I want to go back to that period when you know you are building a growing company. I would imagine that there are ups and downs, like any business is going to have. Financially, I’m guessing things were going quite well. You have this feeling that something needs to change. Something is maybe missing, or you are not clear on the why.

A lot of people have that feeling at one point, but they will look at their business and go, “I have a successful business. Things are going well here. This is a normal thought. It is a distraction.” They will get back to doing what they are always doing. In your experience, when should somebody pay attention to that feeling or that question that comes maybe into their mind around their purpose? Should they keep doing what they are doing? Should they make a change? How do you view that?

How I viewed it is I was showing up to work physically. I was not there mentally and spiritually. There is a feeling that is empty. I would generally override that with my logic brain and say, “That is okay. You got a good business. You have a responsibility to the staff.” At the time, I was probably neglecting other aspects at home and neglecting aspects of my sport. My fencing started to go down, as certain parts of my business.

We had tough times like in 2001 and 2008. We have been through those cycles. There is a certain amount of grit. There is also a time to know when to walk away and to open up other doors that may have been closed because we were hyper-focused on the success of the business. That sums it up in a way.

That is helpful because I want to give people the perspective that I share through your story because I do believe that those kinds of thoughts or feelings come up for people at different stages. It is quite common. The logical side takes over and says, “Keep doing what you are doing.” It is an important question to ask. There is no necessarily right or wrong. Everybody’s situation is different. That is helpful for people to explore.

You talk now about how you went from that place of feeling that something maybe needed to change and how you did research. You ended up developing these skills to help leaders. That is where you landed. How did you go about getting your first few clients once you assembled some of these skills? You had some certification. You had tools in your tool belt and the desire. Where did it go from there in terms of getting the first few clients?

My first few clients came through the community that I belong with, which is the entrepreneurial community, and in part through EO. I used to be comfortable sitting in the audience and being at the side of the room. From a leadership perspective, they had asked me to be the chapter president. I gained a few other leadership roles along the way until I became comfortable with being in front of the room. That in itself was its own journey. I struggle personally promoting myself. It is not easy to sell myself. I have partnered with others that do that for me. Over time, as long as one is consistent, most of my business is word of mouth. I have been lucky.

A lot of people will resonate with this idea or this feeling of, “I don’t like to sell. I’m not a salesperson. I’m not a marketing person. I’m good at my craft, and I have this expertise, but I’m not necessarily the promotional kind of person.” You talked about partnering with others that helped you with that. Can you give an example or a little bit more detail of who those people were? What was their function or role? How did they help you with that?

Do it till you become it. Click To Tweet

They agreed to be the rainmaker, as it were. I would give them a percentage of the business willingly. There are other business models that do that. There is Vistage. There are other groups where you are coaching and consulting in that capacity. They get a piece of the action because they are bringing the customers to you. That is where it had been. It was partnering with others who believed that I could deliver and would be a source of income for them. I’m happy to share.

Were they individuals? Were they always organizations like an EO or a Vistage that did this for you?

It is a blend of both. I found myself that the more flexible I was, the more revenue I was able to generate through a variety of channels, all the while respecting the integrity of each organization and not soliciting within the organization. They would come to me. The other person they would sell to the outside world apart from the world I was already involved with.

Through that process, is there anything you found in terms of a lesson you worked on with one person or an organization and it did not work well? Were there some misalignment or some issues that crept up that, with the benefit of hindsight, you would not do, you would look for, or you would stay away from? Is there anything that you can share?

Where I found the misalignment was on values and not about the interpretation of the value and the interpretation of what the word meant because we can say, “Integrity or authenticity,” but what does that truly mean? Give me a definition. Authenticity is one of my core values. It is authenticity in word and deed. If I felt a person may have been authentic in their words and not in their deeds, that created dissonance. From there, I realized that this could not be a long-term partner.

You are going beyond saying the word or saying, “Here is what the values are.” You’re making sure that the partners you have or that you have worked with view and have a shared understanding of what that value means and what may be an example of it would be playing out in the real world and lived it.

We are in a relationship based on trust and respect. If it is based simply on a transaction, that is okay. That is for a different kind of relationship. It is not the relationship I thrive off of.

The next thing I want to talk a little bit about, explore and have a conversation around is this idea that you talk about how to master the dual between life and work. When I saw that on your website, it resonated with me. That is an interesting topic. To start, can you define what that means to you and how to master the dual between life and work?

Mastery has no start and end point. It is ongoing. It is part of why I like fencing. The opponent I had last week is not the opponent I had this week. I’m not the same person now as I was yesterday. It is a continuous learning process. Along the way, some people are good at compartmentalizing. They say, “I live my life like this. I’m going to be like this in life. I’m going to be like this at work.”

For me, it was about the integration of the two. I didn’t have to play this game. I could be my authentic self both in life and in work, knowing that I had a different role to play at different times. At the same time, I still drew from my core values, know, learn, and seek to understand how others wish to be treated. It’s not how I wish to be treated but how they wish to be treated. As long as I said true to my values, it didn’t matter if I was in a work environment or a life environment. I was able to be my authentic self in both scenarios.

It would be helpful if you are able to share an example. Is there a common situation you have seen with leaders where they are trying to find this balance between work and life? People talk about the work-life balance. Some say, “There is no such thing. It doesn’t exist.” Others say, “Yes, it is a critical thing to focus on.” What have you seen come up with the leaders that you work with? Is there a common situation or example you could use to illustrate a common challenge and how you help people navigate through that?

CSP Jamie Douraghy | Work Life Balance

How I look at it is what is my capacity as a leader? What is my capacity within me for life? Life comes before work. Work is an aspect of our life, as is play, resting, and learning. If I can increase my capacity, and that is emotionally, spiritually, mentally, and physically, and if I can work on all those aspects together, I will be more equilibrium within myself, and I can tackle those aspects.

A good example would be 2008. Our business is crashing along with many others because we support marketing and advertising departments. That is usually the first thing that gets cut. Money is no longer there. We hunker down. We saw our businesses going down. We had to make tough choices. I had to make cutbacks on other areas at the same time.

I still went fencing every week because that kept me focused. I couldn’t buy new shoes. I had to wear shoes while running out, but it didn’t happen. I’m using that again metaphorically. The idea was to keep showing up, keep going to practice, and keep taking the lessons. I applied that same mindset to work. I kept showing up, bringing that strength, having that inner strength, and making sure that the rest of the world felt that, even though inside, I was scared.

As you are speaking right now, I can’t help but think that is an area that many people have a real challenge with. As somebody becomes more successful, their business becomes bigger. They have more people or demand for their services and expertise. One of the first things that tends to fall off is them taking care of themselves. They don’t exercise and eat well.

Have you seen a correlation between that leading to this place of overwhelm where people are busy? They are busy becoming successful on the business or work side. What tends to drop off as they are climbing that mountain of success are the other aspects of their life in terms of the balance of whether it is spiritual, relationships, or physical and mental health. What are your thoughts? What have you seen with leaders you have worked with in that area or respect?

The ones that have pushed through from that period are the ones who have community, forum, coach, or group of like-minded individuals that can help push through together. We could be facing this wall. That wall may feel insurmountable. We can jump over, take it down brick by brick, or smash right into it. I have seen all of those happen. As the saying goes, “Many hands lighten the load.” If we can take that apart brick by brick with the help of others, we don’t have to leap as hard. We are not going to crash into it. We can walk through that. It does take others for us to feel that we can do it all by ourselves. It is erroneous in terms of that way of thinking that we can do it all by ourselves.

How important in your mind is it? With your example, even as you were going through this challenging time in 2008, the thing that kept you going and allowed you not to give up or to build back up was playing fencing, and going for that consistently was critical. What are your thoughts on that in terms of others who are going through some challenging situation? Maybe it is not even a challenge. It is growing, and things are going well for them on the business side, but they are not being consistent in the other areas of life that ultimately would make them a happier and more well-rounded person. What is your perspective on that?

In addition to that, I was the EO Los Angeles Chapter President from 2008 to 2009, when everyone’s hair was on fire. We, as the board, made that commitment to ourselves to the chapter that we would help lift the entire, to the extent that we could, the entrepreneurial community within Los Angeles. We started opening up and reaching out to the community.

That gave me more of a sense of connection and commitment. It was not convenient. However, by digging deeper and knowing that there were others next to me, that community of entrepreneurs, the EO chapter at that time, did push through a lot together. Fencing was my constant, and I could go there. Once you enter that fencing club, it doesn’t matter what is going on outside. The person opposite you with a mask on and a weapon in their hand doesn’t care how bad a day you had. If I let that day get the better of me, I will lose in that moment, and I will get hit. I don’t like getting hit.

We are seeing this with many of our clients now, maybe more than ever before, or in these times, the community is important. There is so much focus on things like AI and technology. These are all great developments that hopefully are going to continue to help humankind. The one thing that AI doesn’t replace or can’t impact is relationships of the value of relationships and community. I agree with you. It is important to find a community that you resonate with, and you are not alone. Collectively, you can accomplish so much more together.

I wonder, Jamie, about your thoughts around this concept of mastering life and work or the duel between life and work. What are the common mistakes you see people making if they are looking to build a business and become more successful? For the consultants in our world tuning into this that are likely going through all kinds of different things as they are working to build their businesses, what are some common mistakes or landmines that you could share for people to help them avoid those or recognize they might be going through one now?

Life comes before work. Work is an aspect of our life, as is play, rest, and learning. Click To Tweet

One of the mistakes I made was when people would say no. I would take that rejection personally. They were saying no to me and my talents and all the hard work and all this work that I have been doing. I realized that wasn’t it. It may have been timing, or my offering wasn’t right for them. That’s fine. Not to take it as a defeat or as a failure, for that matter. What did I learn from this? What can I tighten up? I will call them later and say, “We didn’t end up working together. Is there something that I could do better? What can I learn from this?”

It is a commitment. I realize that if I didn’t get this 1, there are 10 others that are out there. Persistence is is important. At the same time, knowing and understanding the value that I bring because I feel that when I have made the connection with an executive or with their leadership team, I see them start to nod. I see their eyes get bigger. I see them starting to physically lean in. What I’m sharing is having an impact on that moment.

Those are the moments that I live for because that gives me that energy. That is what energizes me. I realized, “After that, I can do this more.” I made a conscious choice not to scale because I had already run a company. Many people said, “Jamie, you should do this, hire coaches and build a business.” I said, “No, I want to build the lives of leaders.” I’m happy and focused on doing that. It does mean a different level of income. I’m fine with that because I have a sense of fulfillment at this stage of my life with the work that I do.

I love that you are intentional and conscious of where you want to take things and know because you had that experience before. You could accomplish a lot “more.” More is whatever you want it to mean for you. You talked about recognizing your own value. We have seen people struggle with that at different stages. Some have already been in business for quite some period of time, but they have gone along doing things in a way that feels comfortable to them. They are used to viewing what is in front of them in that same way.

What I mean by that is that you can still be relatively successful but not necessarily view the value that you bring to its full potential. That tends to hold people back. How do you go about recognizing your own value and go from a place where you didn’t recognize it to the level and the extent that it could be to all of a sudden, through that journey, finding that you were able to achieve or create greater value? What did that look like for you?

It was what I struggled with. I didn’t know how to price myself. Do I go too low? Do I do too high? I went somewhere in the middle and played it safe. The feedback that I got was, “You are not charging enough for the value that you are bringing.” I would ask them, “How much do you pay?” “X.” I said, “Next time, it’s X.” I went up to that level.

As I saw the value that I was brought based on 360 feedback, what worked and what could be better, my prices went up and others were willing to pay for it based on what they had heard of the success from the leaders post-workshop or post-coaching. Another answer to that is how much does it cost you not to do this work? When they see the exponential dollars and how many commas or decimal points you wish to put on that, then the investment in the right coaching and facilitation is an exponential reward for having invested in oneself through an outside perspective.

How do you view value and pricing from the context or the situation of some of the leaders that you are working with? I would imagine the work you are doing with them may not be 100% focused on increasing revenues or sales. It is not something that is as tangible as that. You can connect a dollar sign. The consultants struggle with that. They understand the concept of value pricing and how beneficial it can be to base your fees and pricing on the value or the outcomes of the results that you are creating. For those where the work maybe isn’t a direct connection to increasing sales, decreasing costs, or improving profits, how do you look at that? How does that impact your approach to fees and pricing?

I start with what is the cost of a team that is operating in dissonance. Let’s look at that number. That number generally does come from the CEO or the leader. They have a finger on the pulse of what that costs them.

What would that look like? What would they consider to come up with an answer to that? Are they looking at the salaries of their team, how many team members, and how much more could be improved or more effective beyond where they are now? What are some of the metrics that components that go into that?

They will also look at opportunity cost and the length of time that it may take to get to a decision or the length of time that it took to get to a bad decision. It is a little hard sometimes. It is gray. Once you have the numbers in place, it is an EQ decision over an IQ decision. It is what, as a leader, gives the team what they need. If all I’m giving them is numbers and we are all performance by numbers, fine, if that is the leadership they want.

CSP Jamie Douraghy | Work Life Balance

The companies I work with tend to are not the Fortune 500. They are in the $5 million to $50 million space, which is where the entrepreneur is. It is my area of expertise. The conversations to be had one-on-one with the leaders is much more on a personal level because there is a lot of ownership at the level of the companies that I tend to work with. It is a bit of a gray area. It does become a gut check at some point.

Have you found yourself in situations where you ask those questions, or is it part of the conversation with the buyer, with the client, and they are not sure? They don’t know how to maybe articulate what that value is or what that dollar amount is. If so, how do you proceed? How do you work through that with them?

If they don’t know, I ask them to partner up with their numbers person. Go to your CFO, have a one-on-one, and sit down with the other. If there are three of you, sit down, triangulate, come up with an idea, and then come back. This also gives the CEO an opportunity to check in with other leaders like, “I’m thinking about this. What do you see that I’m not seeing?” They may say, “Yeah, go bring this outside person in.” They may say, “No, we are not ready. We got to protect our cash.” The CEO then has to make a decision.

When you do that, it sounds like you are giving a bit of homework to the CEO in that situation. Some people might look at that. From a sales or sales process perspective, be a little bit concerned that you are not sealing the deal or bringing them in because, even before you talk about pricing or whatever it might be, you are having that conversation and collecting some information.

You don’t strike me as the person that is pushing hard for somebody to make a decision right away. I might be wrong about that. Correct me, please. I’m wondering. What do you think about that in terms of giving somebody the space or pulling somebody along a defined sales process? Where do you live on that spectrum?

It is an extension of my own personality. I don’t like to be sold. I like to be guided. I like part of it. It is a preference. Everybody needs a coach in some capacity. I choose to work with those who want it because they are more willing to do the hard work and heavy lifting that the homework requires. Once they are ready, it is more likely that they will stay and follow it through to completion versus being a one-and-done workshop, which is fine. If we go back to being busy, we are not achieving that life-work integration. We are going back to the juggling act.

Are there certain signs, words, or behaviors that you pick up on that tell you early in that conversation or touchpoint with a prospective client that you can see that this is somebody who is committed and they want this as opposed to somebody who isn’t that committed and likely will not move forward?

At the moment, everyone is enthusiastic because it is exciting. It sounds like a good idea. They may like how I think and how I present. It is in the follow-up work. I give every CEO a follow-up task to do. It is a three-pager with a variety of questions, thoughts, and thinking. There is a good portion that never fills them up, and I never hear from them again. That is fine. If all they wanted was a three-page worksheet, and they got that from half an hour with me, that is great. I’m still contributing. Even in that capacity, I still feel fulfilled in a different way.

Try a little bit more detail here and go a little bit deeper for everybody. What you are referring to is you might have a 30-minute conversation for free with a prospective client. You have that 30 minutes. Afterward, you will give them some homework. It is a three-page assessment. Fill it in, send it back, and we can move forward to the next step. Is that correct?

Exactly. I give them a deadline to fill it back, not 30 days from now. Do this within a week, and we will have a follow-up conversation. If they don’t, then I understand that their level of commitment is elsewhere.

Do you do any follow-up with those people, or do you wait for them?

All of us need time to reflect on something as a leader. Click To Tweet

I will send a follow-up email. I said, “It has been a week. I haven’t heard from you. If you wish, here is my calendar. Book a time. If not, good luck on your journey.”

Do buyers or prospective clients know your pricing at that stage? Have you talked about what an engagement would look like, or has that not happened yet?

I do that within the first 30 minutes. “This is what the program looks like.” They have an idea of what they are committing to. That is upfront and the associated cost upfront.

When you are having that conversation, are you only providing the assessment to those who say, “That sounds good, and let’s move forward?” Are they initially telling you that they want to move forward, and that is why you are giving them the assessment, or even if somebody hasn’t yet made that commitment or hasn’t verbally said that to you, are you still going to give the assessment? What does that look like?

I will still give them the assessment because I believe all of us need time to reflect on something as a leader. I have had clients come back to me 90 days to 6 months later. They were like, “I wasn’t ready at the time. Thank you for this. I have been reflecting on this. Life has not gotten better in six months. This is the time to engage.”

Do you do any follow-up with people between the time that you have that initial conversation? You give them the assessment. They don’t respond for 1 month or 9 months. Do you have any follow-up process to touch base with those people during that time?

I tend not to. There are many good coaches. I learn a lot from others on a consistent marketing plan. I will get an email from them every two weeks with some valuable content. I found that it is an exhausting process to be putting out content on an ongoing basis. I’m best at learning from others and then sharing what I’ve learned with my actual paying clients. It is a crowded space with a lot of brilliant people. I didn’t want to be one more noise that they had. Yes, it does reduce some of my inbound inquiries. At the same time, it is an intentional choice that I made.

That is great that you are clear on that because I would imagine if you had selected the path of growth scale, you want to build this bigger, you want to significantly increase revenues, and so forth. Your choice around how you handle the sales process or the marketing process would be quite different. What you are doing now works for you with a specific model that you have.

There are many different approaches to doing this. Each one is right for that person. Once they find it and commit to it, whatever angle that may be, whatever school of thought they are from, whatever marketing way of thinking and doing, they are all valuable. You have to make sure it works for you and is in line with your values.

A couple of more questions here, and we will wrap up. I often ask people about a couple of habits that they have and that they do on a consistent basis that they feel make an impact or have a positive impact on their ability to show up and perform at a high level. I would imagine one of them is fencing, based on our conversation. Is there something else that you do consistently that you feel has a positive impact on your life and your business as well, Jamie?

Absolutely. I get up every morning at 5:00. It used to be 7:00. I’ve realized those extra two hours a day had brought more light into my world earlier on. My wife and I go for a walk from 5:30 to 6:00. We always walk. It is five days a week that we are out doing the walk. We talk about our thoughts and plans. We get to share that. I have parents that are 88 and 90 years old. Every Sunday, we have a family Zoom with our siblings. Occasionally, the grandchildren will show up and ritualize that connection because we live in different parts of the world. It brings us a lot of joy and fulfills a sense of connection and community with family.

CSP Jamie Douraghy | Work Life Balance

Between fencing, which is all about me, getting up early, and walking with my wife is about the two of us and extending that to our family. It is about we as a family. Those are small things that help me truly live an integrated life. I’m not struggling to balance life and work. I’m trying my best to live them out as one through those habits.

I’m the same. In my case, it is going to the gym or going for a run in the morning. I get so much more done. I feel it sets the stage for having set up for a great day. Second to final question here, which is one book that you have either read or listened to in the last several months? It could be fiction or non-fiction, but something that again has had an impact and you feel like it would be helpful for others and that you would recommend.

I finished Starry Messenger by Neil deGrasse Tyson. What I appreciate is his perspective that he can talk a great deal about the cosmos and show how small we are and, at the same time, how important we can be with the contributions that we make. That resonated with me. I forgot another habit that I do. I also journal on a daily basis. When I read Neil’s book, I will take extracts from his book and keep that in a separate book. I was like, “Here is an a-ha moment.” I try to capture a-ha moments from the various books I read.

The other one that I recommend that everyone read is Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning. That gave me a perspective on what we can come through regardless of, in his case, the terrible circumstances that he had to overcome and still keep that positive mindset and learn from that experience that life can teach us a lot.

Jamie, I want to thank you for coming on here to share a bit of your journey and experience. People can learn a lot more from following your work or seeing what you are doing. For those that want to learn more and stay tuned, where is the best place for them to go to learn more about you and your work?

I’m on LinkedIn under Jamie Douraghy. My website is

Jamie, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you, Michael. It has been a pleasure having this conversation with you.

Important Links

Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share!

Skip to content